Jingbo Huang | Director, United Nations University Institute, Macau

Welcome to the United Nations Career Journey Podcast brought to you by the Office of Human Resources at the UN Secretariat and UNDP, the UN Development Programme. In this series, we talk to colleagues from across the world about their careers. We want to know what’s it really like to work for the United Nations. My name is Kate Doyle and today we’ll hear from Jingbo Huang, Director of the United Nations University Institute in Macau.

Hi Jingbo, I’m so glad to be with you here today.

Hi Kate, very happy to reconnect with you.

Yes, I’m excited to do this interview with you because I’ve known you for many years now. We actually worked together in OHRM, in the Secretariat in New York, a bunch of years ago. And I know that you’ve sort of had a tour de force of promotions and movement across duty stations and entities since then. You are now a Director at the UN University in Macau and you’re only 46 years old, which is young in to reach this level in the UN system. So I’m wondering if you could just share with us to start… how do you feel about the career path that you’ve carved out for yourself?

OK. Thank you, Kate. You’re very kind. I have spent 20 plus years in the UN System… 5 UN organizations and I got 7 promotions along the way. So within these 20 plus years, I spent a couple of years in UNESCO, actually my first official well, first job was actually an internship. And then it turned out to be a consultancy job. Then later I moved to the UN Secretariat as General Service, as you correctly said. And then during the General Service time, I learned so much about UN and UN research back then…my first job was at the UN Yearbook. Then, a few years later, I passed the General Service competitive exam.

So I moved directly from G3 to G7, which might not be very common these days and but back then it was still a possibility.

So, six years later, I passed another exam, which is the G to P — back then the “NCE” which is equivalent to today’s YPP exam.

So after that I became a Professional…so I was in the UN Secretariat for 11 years, 11 plus years and I was working for the UN Development Program for two years or more, and then I was working for the UN System Staff College in Turin, Italy for three years.

Then I moved to UN University in 2018. So this is my fifth year in the UN University and I’m heading a research think tank focusing on the digital technology and sustainable development based in Macau.

That sounds super interesting and like a really unique type of role in the UN. Could you share with us a couple of the main projects you’re working on right now?

As you as you surely know, UNU is one of the UN System organizations…and UNU is a UN System think tank and its headquarters is in Tokyo, Japan. And UNU has 13 research institutes spread in 12 different countries. So each institute is specialized in one specific area and our institute in Macau is specialized in the digital technologies.

So the current projects that we do — of course technology changes all the time — so our portfolio will evolve together with technology…but ultimately it’s serving the purpose of the UN’s big agenda and currently it’s the SDGs. Our current portfolio includes, for example, the ethics of artificial intelligence — you know — AI governance issues, and there’s also modeling. Participatory modeling is basically decision-making tool to include more voices for a better decision-making. There is also a modeling for disaster management and how to prepare for the next pandemic. There’s cyber resilience, cyber security projects….there’s online well-being… online child protection…so we have a group of interdisciplinary researchers. I’m very excited to work with them and we have a computer scientists, economists, psychologists, communication experts. My own background is in educational technology, so we’re an interdisciplinary team working on projects that call for co-creation.

And what do you find challenging about your leadership role there?

For me personally I think the biggest growth that I have since I took this position I is working with people. How I can better work with the people. Right now Constantly I think about OK managing up, managing down, managing lateral relationships…so a lot of relationship management, building… maintaining.
So, for example, managing up: how can I contribute to my supervisors’ vision or help implement the vision and from the institute management level. For the younger researchers, how can we create a platform where they can blossom? How can I support their career growth? And for our government partners: how can we build trust? And with our donors: how can we co-create projects rather than taking them as a, you know, a cash cow? You know we co-create things together. For our communities: how can we support each other? How can we co-create activities together? So a lot of people management… people understanding. So it’s very interesting — while I’m learning more about how to work with people, actually I’m learning more about myself. So this happened at the same time, so I intentionally took some courses to help me understand more about myself. And that helps me understand the people around me.

For example, during the pandemic time I took a coaching certification training in Hong Kong and I got certified and I learned different ways of communicating with my staff. So you know, coach-like conversation… asking questions rather than having a prejudgment. And so a lot of things that….I’ve been learning and growing along the way of maintaining these relationships that I have right now.

And so you mentioned the different sites, the different places where UN University is. I know you’re in Macau and that you’re from mainland China yourself originally. So I’m curious, how does it feel to be back in your own region near your roots and family?

Actually, I really enjoy this experience and that was a conscious choice. I have been working outside of China for 20 or close to 20 years and I felt that I owe my family and we weren’t even in the same time zone every time we talked. We have to find either their morning, my evening, if their evening, my morning. So it was very difficult to coordinate time with them. Meanwhile, I lost a lot of connections with my friends. You know, I couldn’t maintain these connections with the relatives extra. So at a certain stage of my career I thought, ok, I wanted to make it up to my family in mainland China. So I made a decision of coming back to China and work in Macau and it was gratifying because I felt that my willingness or my wish to recognize my roots has been fulfilled at the moment.

And meanwhile, what I have learned outside of China can be beneficial to my current work because in the office in Macau — I obviously would deal with colleagues from both China and outside of China.

So I could be a good bridge to connect these two and culturally and especially from the culture perspective and also from the expectations perspective. I can bridge these potential gaps because I understand perfectly….well, not perfectly… but understand well where my Chinese colleagues are coming from, and I also understand where my international non-Chinese colleagues are coming from. So I usually I tend to share this mutual understanding with the other party, so to create more empathy among the team. So I try to glue the team together.

And I know that you have a young son. I’m curious how you have found managing a demanding leadership role while also balancing mom time and all of our obligations that go along with it.

I think many working moms will have this moms’ guilt, right? You spend so much time at work and which means the opportunity costs — that you couldn’t spend the same time with your young child or with your family. So I try to do within my frame or my energy. I tried to do as much as I can… as best as I can. At work I’m here fully dedicated to work and when I go home, actually I focus 100% on my son and I really enjoy the routine. Every day I get off work…he probably already has finished eating dinner. Then I’ll just take care of the rest. Give him a shower. Reading him a book, so the reading book part is our routine that has been going on ever since he was born. So this is really something — important bonding time for us. Then I put him to bed, then the next morning when he wakes up, the first thing he will come to me….wake me up. Then I’ll prepare breakfast for him. Dress him. And this morning, we biked together to school and I dropped him off in school. He biked half of the way, and then I brought his bike back home. You know, so this is our routine, a mom and son routine. And during the weekend as 100% for him. Unless I have some emergency situation where some big events going on at work, but weekend time I try to give a priority to my family and to my son. So I know I wish I could spend more time. I have more influence spent. I have more quality time with him, but this is what I can offer….what I can afford right now, so I try to do as much as good as I can.

Yes, I know the feeling we all just try to manage as best we can. I’m jealous that you get to ride bikes together in the morning. That would be wonderful.

Yeah, actually it’s not very common to bike in Macau, but since I enjoy biking so much. You probably remember me biking back in New York every day from home to work, so I really enjoyed it.

I do remember that. Ok so I want to ask you now about your trajectory. I know you mentioned earlier that you worked in a range of different UN organizations and you crossed over duty stations for years. What was motivating you? What was leading you from one position to the next?

For me, the driving force is what I can do…. creating possibilities…from the very beginning I was very clear that my track would be learning and education/ research. So this is my field and that’s why when I was in New York working for the UN Secretariat, at the same time I pursued a doctoral degree in educational technology at Columbia University. So it took me 9 years to complete that doctoral program just because I worked full time and basically studied sort of like full time. I spent all my off-work time working on the on the doctoral program. So this is my niche. This is what I wanted. I want to contribute to the UN world. So when I looked for positions I was always looking into the learning, education, training/research areas. So I would say all of my previous positions except for my first G2P assignment, everything else all were along this same trajectory were my choice along this way… and then when I decided to move on to the next position, of course there was a combination of a different reasons, but the driving force inside of me was not for promotion.

I was not after promotion, but rather hey, this job description…after reading it, I have a vision in in my mind.

Is this something that I can do? Is it interesting? Is it exciting? Would I be able to make a difference? Would I be able to expand my possibilities to make myself become stronger or better? Can it grow me? So these are the considerations for me. And I’m a very visual person when I think about these things. When I think about the picture, if that picture interests me, excites me, then I will go ahead and apply for the position. Of course, along the way I did get promotions. I also failed many times.

It doesn’t mean that every attempt of mine was successful. And for example, when I was on the P2 position, I probably was on the P2 position for seven years or more and back then I was really trying to leave New York. I wanted to go somewhere else, so I applied for 119 positions in inspira and plus some external positions and unfortunately I didn’t get any. Not even a written test invitation from the 119 applications that I submitted from the P2 to P3 positions. But rather I got a two job offers. One was from the UN System Staff college, the other one was from Huawei and as the Chief e-Learning Officer.

But for whatever reason….of course, the Chief E-Learning officer sounded very tempting. It had a bigger package. The salary probably was three times more than the UN salary, but I felt that somehow my heart for the UN is still taking a more dominating position. So I just gave up on e-learning offer, even though I went through like 5 or 7 rounds of interviews until the end. And yeah, so I moved to the UN System Staff College.

And why is your heart still attached to the UN?

I think….it’s probably linked to my value system. I want to do something for my fellow human beings with my own expertise or my own capacities and my own expertise happens to be in the learning, education and training/research area.

I was very clear and I am very clear about it. For the UN I feel that I can make a bigger impact. Back then that was doing a lot of staff training…so I helped the people to develop who will eventually change the world. So this is a big mission and vision that drives me and keeps me excited.

I see. That’s wonderful to hear. I feel the same way in terms of my heart being with this organization even after so many years. So it sounds like you had a very specific vision from early on. You know the intersection of education and technology and how it fits into the UN. And you were motivated by enriching your skills and you know, learning more and more. But I’m interested in how you felt about the moves. I know you said you wanted to leave New York at a certain point, but then you kept moving. And I admire that, because I’m someone that I’ve moved a bunch of times within New York but not across duty stations. And was it difficult for you in a lot of ways, like leaving friends, even just a comfortable apartment and a neighborhood in a given city and starting over somewhere else?

I want to mention an experience. Last week I just took a training on a personality test and I learned more about myself. So I learned that there are different — everybody’s different….different type of personalities. Some people just like to enjoy the new experiences, and some people who enjoy this are genuinely very curious about going to spend time in another place or moving to another place. And some people prefer to cultivate their own network or not necessarily network, but own circle of support group or support people or family. So I happen to be the one that enjoys new experiences.

So on the personality test exam or the training that I did…I happened to be on the very high on that scale. So I know it certainly has a personality issue, not issue, but reason. And another thing is yes, it is true that I every time I move to a new place, I had to leave my friends behind. But I don’t see it this way. I see it as a way to have this cohort of friends and to whom I would return one day.

So my next question for you: where do you see yourself going next? Do you have a next career goal?

I don’t have a concrete career goal right now, and because right now I have a bit more complex situation I have a family and you know it’s not just for me….no like when I was single — I just decided wherever is more exciting than I would go without even consulting anybody. But right now, I have a family. I have to think about more things. But another thing is I don’t want to set myself for a specific position, but still along the same path or motivations. I want to see what will be possible for me. What can I create more possibilities? Can I expand myself? Can I challenge myself? Can I grow myself? Can I understand myself more through the new job or the new engagement? So this is something that I’m after rather than a specific position or grade or promotion.

I know you started out as a General Service staff member in the Organization at an assistant level. Just wondering if you have any words of wisdom or encouragement to share with current General Service staff who often feel perhaps more stuck than the average staff member in terms of their ability to move and grow in the Organization.

So I had been a General Service staff for years and I understand the struggle of our General Service colleagues and I wanted to tell them that I’ve already seen so many General Service staff who are so competent, sharp, creative, well-educated…some of them already have a doctoral degree, Masters degrees, you know, and they’re really, really competent.

And it’s just that probably their timing is not right or probably they haven’t found their possibilities or paths. I highly encourage them to be more open-minded about their careers. For example, I’ve along my 20 years of UN experience I have witnessed so many General Service staff being like blossoming in different ways. For example, I’ve seen people have the have the traditional success, which means passing the G2P or NCE or YPP exam and successfully becoming a Professional staff from General Service. And I applauded for them — actually, I helped them with you know, before they apply for the exam…you know, help to coach them along the way.

And I also saw some people taking some, you know, temporary positions -

Professional positions — eventually becoming regularized positions you know in a UN agency not in the UN Secretariat.

I’ve also seen people who quit the UN Secretariat and reapplied and got Professional position. Also saw people who moved from the UN to the private sector and who became a real estate agent, a successful one…who became an artist, a karate teacher, certified psychologist. All these people are real people that I’ve witnessed the growth of in the past 20 years, so I would like to encourage our General Service staff colleagues to focus on what you want to do rather than only focusing on climbing the ladder at the UN.

Thank you, that’s some really good advice. Jingbo, thank you so much for joining us today. You know is it was very inspiring to hear from you, especially in terms of your being upfront about what you’ve gone through. You know, you’ve started at General Service level…at one point you applied to 119 jobs in the Secretariat and they were not successful. But you went on to find other jobs. Really appreciate hearing the good stuff and the challenging side of things too over your long career. Congratulations on your current post. When you’re back in New York, as I think you probably will be at some point, let’s meet up and have a coffee.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Kate.